In this episode of the Financial Marketing Insights podcast, Marg Jobling, the Group CMO at NatWest, delves deep into her extraordinary career journey. From her early days as a scientist, where she honed her analytical skills and curiosity, to her rise as a leading Marketer at renowned UK brands, Marg shares her unique perspective on blending art and science to create marketing magic.

Marg Jobling, the Group CMO of NatWest, describes her career as a "liquorice allsorts" journey. She began with a background in science, holding a degree and a PhD in chemistry, specifically laser chemistry. Her early career saw her as a research scientist at Unilever, working on skincare products, including acne treatments, sunscreens, and anti-aging solutions.

Her transition into marketing was unconventional. Initially paired with a marketer to speed up the innovation cycle for Dove products, Marg fell in love with the marketing process.

“My big move into marketing was essentially, they took a marketeer, who was a lady running Dove at the time, and they teamed her with a techie person, that was me, and my job was to increase the innovation cycle time-to-market. So the two of us worked on, she would do the concept development, I would do the mixing at the end bench and then we go test with customers and I absolutely loved it. So I said, can I please become a marketeer?”

Despite initial resistance due to her technical background, a senior leader eventually took a chance on her, and she became a senior brand manager at Unilever Fabergé, handling P&L responsibilities and European advertising innovation.

Marg's marketing career spanned 25 years in consumer goods, working with brands like Dove, Impulse, Vaseline, and Lynx. She then moved to Sara Lee, which was later acquired by Unilever, and subsequently joined Cadbury during the time of the famous gorilla ad.

“…Cadbury was all about innovation and creativity. I mean, the business was rocking when I turned up. It had launched Drumming Gorilla, and they were actually surprised, I think, how successful that had been. And as I say, confidence breeds confidence. The more confident you are, the more you innovate, the more you try stuff. And so I learned creativity, more creativity, not that the other businesses weren't creative, but how to think about getting the best out of your agencies. I mean, their whole campaign was around joy.”

Her career further diversified as she ventured into private equity, gaining further commercial acumen and learning to articulate the value of marketing. Marg then entered the regulated energy sector with Centrica, managing British Gas marketing. This role taught her the importance of brand perception in every customer interaction, from advertising to customer service.

Finally, Marg transitioned into financial services with NatWest, where she has been for four years. Reflecting on her career journey, she acknowledges the significant leap from Unilever to regulated industries like banking, overcoming varied challenges and learning new skills in each environment she experienced.

Marketing Essentials

Marg passionately emphasises the enduring fundamentals of marketing across various industries. Central to her approach is a deep understanding of the customer—their wants, needs, habits, and media consumption. She stresses the importance of starting with the customer and developing brilliant products and propositions that meet their needs. The challenge then lies in communicating these propositions through the right channels, measuring impact, and iterating the process.

She highlights the consistency of core marketing skills while noting the significant variations in business culture and the role of marketing within different organisations. Marg insists on the necessity of being commercial and understanding the business language to have a credible impact as a marketer. Marketing, she asserts, is not just about campaigns but involves a deep understanding of customer expectations and the ability to drive business growth.

Reflecting on her career moves, she likens the experiences to adding ammunition to her armoury. At Unilever, which she dubs the "Oxford University of Marketing," she learned how to be a brilliant marketer by starting with customer diagnostics and creating clear marketing strategies. Transitioning to Sara Lee taught her commerciality, as she had to focus on the full P&L and optimize business costs.

Her time at Cadbury was marked by a focus on innovation, learning to get the best out of agencies and embracing the company's creative philosophy. Private equity presented the challenge of justifying marketing investments, leading her to adopt a test-and-learn approach with specific KPIs to prove the value of marketing initiatives.

Marg underscores the importance of understanding the unique financial mechanics and business objectives of each company, highlighting that while the core principles of marketing remain the same, the approach to impacting businesses can vary greatly. At Unilever, where marketing was deeply integrated into the business, she was accountable for the P&L. In contrast, at energy companies, revenue generation often depended on external factors like weather.

“I think as a function, we need to get much, much better at our commerciality, explaining the value we bring. I think our two life bloods are data and creativity. They’re our superpowers. And if you can combine the combination of the two, marketing will be rocking it. And I don't think we're doing a good enough job, if I'm really honest, in the industry to really nail that. And I've got many reasons as to why I think that's the case, but I do think if we can solve that, we'll get the credibility we deserve for actually growing businesses, because we are.”

Her experience in private equity reinforced the concept that tangible results are paramount. She learned that businesses are valued based on their actual financial performance, not hopeful projections. She stresses the necessity of metrics that translate into real business growth, rather than vanity metrics that, while impressive in numbers, lack commercial value.

For example, she critiques the overemphasis on social media impressions that don't directly contribute to the business's bottom line. Marg argues for a balanced approach that values both creativity and commerciality, insisting that effective marketing combines data-driven insights with innovative strategies.

She believes in the power of experimentation and adaptation, noting that the complexity of modern marketing requires a dynamic approach.

“The thing I passionately also believe in is experimentation, because it is complex. Like it's a graphic equalizer of complex channels, spend, customer behaviours, segments. And so, for me, I think what I hold dear, and the term someone used yesterday, which I thought was lovely, was ‘metrics you treasure’. What are the metrics you have to treasure? And that's what the business treasures, as we should treasure. And how do we tell our story through those metrics? And the others become secondary, and all the lead indicators of good things will come.”

She calls for a deeper understanding and articulation of marketing's impact on business growth, advocating for transparency and accountability in reporting and performance measurement.

Partnership with Team GB

Discussing NatWest’s recent sponsorship of ‘Team GB’ at the Paris Olympics, Marg underscores the unique alignment between the sponsorship and NatWest’s brand identity. The sponsorship came at a time when the bank was looking to drive perceived differentiation and boost internal performance. NatWest’s brand purpose—helping people take action today for a better tomorrow—resonated deeply with the Olympic ethos of ‘faster, higher, stronger’.

The sponsorship aligned perfectly with the bank’s predominantly UK-based operations and its mission to act as a cheerleader for its customers, encouraging them to set goals and take small steps toward financial security. The partnership with Team GB, the UK's most beloved team after the NHS, was seen as a match made in heaven, especially at a time when the country needed positive momentum following issues like COVID, the cost-of-living crisis, and Brexit.

Internally, NatWest launched employee initiatives like a baton relay from Inverness to Folkestone, and this internal activation exemplifies the idea that brands are made inside-out and fostered a sense of pride and engagement among employees.

“So across the whole country, we swam, we horse rode, we walked, we ran, we canoed, but we drove our way through the country with our people, our colleagues and stopped at branches on the way, which was phenomenal. 24,000 of our colleagues got involved and they raised money for charities that they really care about. So we made tens of thousands of pounds for local charities. We obviously mobilised with customers. And as the Olympics landed this year, it was a phenomenal success.”

NatWest A/B tested customer journeys with and without the Olympic association, finding better conversion rates for the ‘Olympified’ journeys. Full econometric analyses are expected to show an improved return on investment. Strategically, the sponsorship aligned with NatWest’s goals, was executed comprehensively, and proved commercially viable.

Marg highlights the importance of viewing such engagements as long-term partnerships, with both parties investing in shared goals. Looking ahead, NatWest is developing plans for 2025, focusing on building on the next generation, grassroots initiatives, and community impact. This sponsorship has been both a professional triumph and a personal joy for Marg, and she is excited about continuing the partnership.

Embedding a Culture of Performance

Last year, the HR team at NatWest conducted a thorough review of the performance framework to assess its effectiveness in driving the desired outcomes. They discovered areas for improvement and decided to revamp the system. This transformation involved setting personalised, smart objectives, ensuring regular check-ins, providing coaching, and fostering a culture of continuous feedback and development.

As the Olympic year approached, NatWest integrated its sponsorship of Team GB with the new performance framework. The insights from elite athletes, who excel in setting and achieving goals, were invaluable. Athletes shared their experiences, highlighting the importance of constant feedback and learning. They noted the stark difference between the acceptance of feedback in sports versus the apprehension it often evokes in business. Marg highlighted the importance of building a learning culture within NatWest, fostering curiosity, and setting ambitious goals.

“…If you want to have a true learning culture, if you really want to drive different outcomes, you've got to be able to constantly be looking for feedback, constantly trying stuff. People talk about fail fast. I hate the failure word. It's not about failure. It's about learning. I tried some stuff. It didn't turn out versus the original hypothesis. So that's learning, actually. So for me, linked to what we wanted to do with the brand, how do you build that learning culture? How do you build curiosity? How do you set really good goals. Nobody does it better than athletes.”

The collaboration with Team GB brought a wealth of knowledge and inspiration, showcasing the commitment and sacrifices athletes make to achieve their dreams.

The holistic activation of the partnership, both internally and externally, aimed to create a seamless alignment between employee engagement and customer satisfaction, ultimately driving the brand's success.

The Role of Marketing

Marg describes marketing as the juggler in the middle of a complex web of activities, emphasising the importance of collaboration. She believes that marketing should never operate in isolation. Instead, it must be interlocked with business objectives, translating them into customer-centric messaging and actions. This requires close collaboration with senior business leaders to align marketing goals with business priorities.

“…for me, collaboration is literally at the heart of us as a function. Because we're the interconnector to so many bits of the business. And increasingly, I think one of the big challenges for CMOs is, if you look at what you're expected to be, you're expected to be brilliant at understanding the media landscape and creating marketing plans to deliver against that. You're expected to be brilliant at managing agencies and creativity. You're expected to be an expert in customer experience and user experience. You're expected to be up there with the CFO talking money and finances. You're expected to be influencing the board and all things strategy.”

One of the challenges Marg highlights is the frequent mismatch between demand and budget, necessitating careful prioritisation. She advocates for a detailed, ROI-focused approach, ensuring that all marketing activities are clearly linked to business outcomes. Reflecting on her experience at British Gas, she recalls how marketing was unfairly judged on telephony sales, despite driving traffic to digital channels. This underscored the need for a unified understanding of metrics across the business. She stresses the necessity of marketers understanding the end-to-end business processes and aligning with various partners.

AI in Marketing

Marg also addresses the transformative potential of AI in marketing. By integrating AI into various stages of the marketing value chain—brief writing, content creation, advertising, and analytics—NatWest aims to enhance efficiency and effectiveness. However, she cautions that this transformation must be approached responsibly, considering issues like trust, authenticity, and bias. The future, she predicts, will see significant changes in marketing functions and skill requirements, making the field both exciting and daunting.

She draws her inspiration from a variety of sources, driven by an innate curiosity. She thrives on being an industry judge, finding it an excellent source of creativity and innovation. By judging categories like ‘customer acquisition’ at the DMAs, she gains insights into the latest industry trends and campaigns, often admiring the creativity of others and wishing she had come up with similar ideas.

Marg is also an avid reader of industry materials and finds spending time with young people particularly enlightening. From her own children, she constantly learns from their unique perspectives on technology and life, which differ significantly from her own upbringing. This keeps her grounded and challenges her to think differently.

Believing strongly in an outside-in approach and the importance of looking beyond one's own organisation for inspiration, Marg encourages her agencies to bring the latest innovations and capabilities to the table, whether it’s insights or AI content creation. Regular sessions with these agencies provide valuable stimulus for trying new ideas.

Internally, she promotes a culture of experimentation, driven by her scientific background. She advocates for clear hypotheses and data collection to test these hypotheses. If an idea proves successful, it’s scaled; if not, it's discarded. This process fosters a mindset of continuous experimentation and improvement.

Marg holds quarterly reviews with tech giants like Google and Meta, always asking, "Who's doing it better than us?" She pushes her teams to stay connected with the external environment, as she believes ensuring they don’t become insular is crucial.

“..for me, it’s all about stakeholder management and relationship building, and anything you’ve ever read about good culture - the building block of all of that is relationships. And I've always said, if I like you, I'm much more likely to help you and forgive you. So how do you build good relationships? And that's true for both your agencies and your colleagues, because the more you can get alignment on what you're trying to do, and we're all in it together - my success is the business’ success.”